Michael Rosen on education: Episode 10

Want to hear Michael Rosen on education, literacy and language? What does he think language is for? Who does language belong to? Listen to Episode 10 of The Language Revolution Podcast where he talks about all the F-words: footballers, fog, Farage and fronted adverbials! This is the second episode of a two-part series. You can catch part one of the conversation here.

Let’s talk about talking!

Michael begins with a history of how Literacy has taken over from Literature in primary schools, and has become a ‘thing in itself’ rather than just a name for the making of letters. The sentence has become king. We are far removed from the purpose of language, which is to express important or trivial things. It is a normal part of human behaviour. It is not the word Literacy that’s to blame, but the abstraction of words from their purpose of communicating what children actually want to express in their writing or talking.

What do children actually want to express in their writing?

Permanent revolution

What are Michael Rosen’s top tips for teachers who would like to encourage a love of language and storytelling in their classes? Should we do Matilda every year because the children love it? Well, maybe not since ‘doing’ the same literature year in, year out, can result in the teacher sending subtle signals that they are bored of the book, and then the children pick up on the sense that it is boring. There is a way around this, however, which as Michael explains in the podcast involves teachers adopting a ‘permanent revolution approach to literacy’.

Rather than ‘WOW’ words on the walls in our classrooms, what Michael suggests is turning our whole classroom into a language scrapbook or language laboratory. He explains how to do this and how to foster an exploratory ethos where we go into the ‘woods of language’ in search of minibeasts with the children.

Woman and man in recording studio
Cate Hamilton and Michael Rosen

Language obeys us. We are the masters and mistresses of language.

Michael Rosen

Who owns language?

Does Shakespeare own language? Is it the ‘old white people’ like Michael Rosen, who talk a lot about language, who own it? Not at all. A new baby owns language, and a 100 year old owns language. We need to help our children see how they own language, and are all permitted to have fun with it. Language is for us. It belongs to all of us.

Helping children to see that they are all linguists might help solve the UK languages crisis, where we are seeing a rapid reduction in the number of students choosing foreign languages from GCSE onwards. Cate wonders if Literacy is siphoning off English from ‘other languages’ and creating a bizarre separation for pupils between what they say and think, what they write in school, and languages they can learn in school, such as French or German.

Grammar is the culprit, says Michael, as the way we teach it is making language abstract at the expense of understanding that language is constantly in use. It has a purpose, genre and social appropriateness. If children can see the point of language again, and enjoy using it, that might curb the trend to drop the study of language(s) in secondary school and beyond. Teachers and pupils need empowering to study and enjoy language in use.

Language is our interactions with all their imperfections and variety.
Michael Rosen on language in use

Language in use

If listening to Michael Rosen on education doesn’t start a language revolution, we will eat our dictionaries. Language in use is how he suggests we talk about language, rather than the single word ‘language’. This would help explain to pupils about language change, dictionaries, loan words, and our interactions with languages. Language in use is what writers like Dickens, Shakespeare and Gerard Manley Hopkins did with words. It would also help bring the multilingualism of our pupils into classroom practice and celebrate the diversity of language(s) in schools.

And perhaps that would mean that Michael has no reason to mention Farage, or the xenophobic language hierarchies he extolls. Well, we can only live in hope!

And what of a certain bear? Find out what could possibly happen to the bear at the end of We’re Going on a Bear Hunt by listening to The Language Revolution Podcast on your usual podcast provider or clicking the button below!

Michael Rosen on talking and writing: Episode 9

Hearing a Michael Rosen poem for the first time in primary school was one of my ‘switch-on moments’ where a lifelong passion is born. I’ve been excited about words, talking, reading and writing ever since. So who better to ask about how to enjoy a life full of wonderful words than Michael Rosen himself?

Let’s talk about talking!

Having grown up immersed in a languages-rich environment, with bilingual parents who spoke English and Yiddish, as well as knowing German, French, and Latin, Michael made a fatal career mistake as a teenager and switched track to study medicine after his humanities A Levels, eventually zigzagging his way into writing for a living.

He calls poems ‘great places to go’ and we talk about how DH Lawrence’s poetry influenced him, and what prompted him to start writing his own poems and stories as a teenager.

Graffiti wall with the word poetry being painted.
I asked Michael Rosen if anyone can be a poet. Listen to his answer on the podcast.

What advice does Michael Rosen give to budding writers?

If writing is a bit like composing a piece of music, with riffs, cadences, snippets of a tune that you can repeat and build up into a piece, then the more you read, the more you get a sense of the ‘whole piece’. Michael recommends ‘reading and reading and reading and reading’ to budding young writers, which might sound obvious but he explains how reading gives us a ‘set of tools in our head’ to help us compose with words, either through oral poetry or writing it down.

The creative process begins with playing with language

As David Crystal described in Episode 8, babies are rap poets from birth! Young children are naturally experimental and love the sound and feel of words. It’s a physical process, attached to our body, as Michael explains. And then writing creeps in and is a once-removed, out-of-body process that can feel alien to children who are not used to the ‘clumsy, turgid, slow thing called writing.’ In fact, many adults do not find much satisfaction in writing either. Michael explores how to continue playing with words on the page, and says that we don’t need to ‘be given permission to play’ and that we don’t have to ‘obey any rules.’

This deadly serious thing called writing

Often silly in his own writing, I ask if poetry needs to be serious or can we allow some silliness into writing too? In fact, as Michael explains, you can explore deadly serious things in a very silly way, and it can be a good method for exploring these serious issues. Playing with words and ‘making up new words out of old words’ goes right back to the origins of language, and brings us to the final section of the podcast where we really start talking about talking.

Oracy or ‘dialogic learning’

Cate Hamilton and Michael Rosen in recording studio
Cate and Michael with their best smiley studio faces!

Michael’s father was a founding figure in the oracy movement, and you might say that Michael is carrying on that family tradition. (Find more on oracy in Episode 6 with Ben Crystal.) Talking is hugely important and talking about stories, talking about our knowledge or lack of it, talking as a method of helping ourselves get to grips with a subject, it all helps us to ‘take possession’ of what we are doing. Talking can even prevent dangerously incorrect medical diagnoses!

What’s all this got to do with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, neon signs, and plastic noses? Listen to the podcast to find out!